Precious Jesus

"Afresh, precious, precious Jesus, I resign this body to You, for doing or suffering, for living or dying. Will You accept it? Will You use me for Your glory more than heretofore, that You may have some little return for all the benefits You have done to me? Oh, do grant this request; my heart longs for it, my spirit pleads for it; and "if You will, You can." You know the hot temptation of which I am the subject. Bring Your glory out of it, and keep me from the evil, and it shall be well." - Ruth Bryan

Wednesday, December 18, 2013

Is lusting after the same sex sinful? Nick Roen of 'Desiring God' blog seems to think it isn't...



There is a post up at  John Piper's Desiring God blog, written by Nick Roen; the post is entitled 'Is it sin to experience same sex attraction'?  As I read the post, I shook my head in disbelief. Why is sexual sin, in this case, sexual perversion, so hard for Christians to comprehend? God's word does not complicate, nor is it silent on this matter. 

From the start, I saw much error in this post, beginning with the title. Look how worldly terminology is used to make sin appear less offensive, words such as 'experience same sex attraction'. Now, look into the word of God and how He defines it in Romans 1:27, 'and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another'. Do you see the difference? According to God's own word, it isn't 'experiencing same sex attraction' is it? It's 'burning in their lust one toward another'. This is NOT a normal 'crush' on someone, or a 'love interest' in someone; this is disgusting, forbidden, raw lust. The text describes 'a burning', 'ekkaiō', which means 'to inflame deeply'. It's formed from two root words, 'ek ex', which speaks of 'origin, from, the point which motion or action proceeds' {definitions are according to Strong's}. The other root word is  'kaiō', meaning 'set on fire, to consume'. This is NOT a normal attraction that occurs between a man and woman, this is a driving force that is motivated by lust; self-centered passion that only seeks to fulfill it's pleasure as it consumes the sinner. It is deep-seeded, lust-driven, maddening passion for immoral abominations with the person whom one lusts after. The one who lusts in this way MUST have what they so wickedly desire. This lust, 'orexis', is a longing for that which God forbids. Such a passionate, deeply inflamed lust will drive the sinner to conquer and satisfy, regardless of the consequences; such is the depraved heart. This immoral perversity is equal to that of animals; it stems from a darkened mind that is in bondage to sin. 

The author of the post insists that "The Bible explicitly says that impenitent homosexual acts, not homosexual desires, keep a person from inheriting the kingdom of God. " Obviously, he hasn't read Matthew 5:28, "but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. " Here, the Lord Jesus not only exposes the sin of acting out with our bodies, He also exposes the sins of the mind; lusting in our 'hearts' - 'kardia'; I like how Thayer's defines kardia, 'the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours, of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence, of the will and character'. We must guard our hearts; our thoughts, will, motives, etc should all be in line with the word and will of God. 2 Corinthians 10:5 is an excellent verse concerning our thoughts, 'We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ'. I challenge Mr. Roen to prove the thought life is exempt from the penetrating gaze of our thrice-holy God. 
Doesn't the word of God tell us God searches the heart? 1 Samuel 16:7, 1 Chronicles 28:9, Psalm 7:9, Psalm 44:21, Jeremiah 17:10, Acts 1:24 and Romans 8:27 are just a few verses that speak of God searching the heart of man. And why does God search the heart? The heart reveals what's in a man. Matthew 15:19-20 reveal what comes out of the human heart; Christ also states that all that comes from the heart is what defiles a man, making him unclean. Nothing unclean will enter God's kingdom as stated in Rev. 21:27. 

I also point out this from the Apostle Paul, found in Colossians 3:5, " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, the which is idolatry". Here we are called to mortify, or put to death, the sins Paul points to; which are sexual and committed with our bodies. The question in the title of this post, 'is lusting after the same sex sinful?', will now be addressed by the Apostle. 

Notice within the list the Apostle gives is 'evil desire'. This is translated from the Greek 'epithumia', meaning 'a longing for what is forbidden'. Early on in Colossians 3:5, the Apostle commands believers to put to death sexual sin, which included engaging the body in immoral behavior. Now, he commands believers to kill their desires for immoral behavior, the mere thought of such evil, wicked desires should NEVER even enter the mind of the regenerated child of God!! God searches the heart, we must NOT  allow sinful thoughts to enter into and tarry in our hearts. The Apostle follows that up with a very stern warning, 'for which things' sake cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience". The wrath of God will be poured out on those who disobey, who willfully engage their bodies and minds in sinful pleasures. 

We simply cannot use worldly terminology when addressing sin, whether it be in our members or our minds! Enough of this candy-coated Christianity that embraces sin and seeks to re-define it! Nick Roen, John Piper, and a host of others who are men-pleasers need to repent. If they do not, they need to be shunned and treated as such. 

There absolutely is hope for homosexuals; the Gospel of Jesus Christ is for those who are ungodly, those who by grace see their wickedness. Christ died to reconcile sinners to a holy God, Christ died to free us from sin's grasp. Far be it for us to lie to sinners and keep them comfortable in their sins! Jesus Christ did not die so we could keep on sinning in our members and our minds; we are called to battle against sin daily. Repentance must be proclaimed when speaking of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.  

As believers,we must have a right understanding of what sin is, of our own wickedness, our depraved hearts, our need to seek our God with the whole heart. Holiness must be strived for, and that includes both outer and inner behavior. How sad is it that in our day, we have so many who have NO understanding of what sin is, and seek only to tickle ears when they should be piercing hearts.
A heart that has been regenerated by God will NOT lust for what is forbidden, nor will it make excuses for sin. A changed heart will loathe sin, love the Lord, and seek to obey Him and His word. May God raise up men who WILL proclaim His truth, men who rightly understand the depravity of mankind, men who profess the atoning work of Christ for those who forsake their sins and flee to Christ for salvation; men who aren't afraid of losing all earthly comforts, men who will risk it ALL for the sake of the GOSPEL! 

With that said, I commend Pastor Don Green for standing against Nick Roen's erroneous blog post.

It's also worth noting this from a previous post of Mr. Roen's, "I disagree, but I must confess that there is a part of me that finds this script appealing. As long as I can remember, I have experienced exclusive same-sex attraction (SSA). Despite counseling and countless prayers, God has not seen fit to change my orientation."  - taken from this post.  Obviously, Nick Roen knows nothing of the regenerating power of God, his heart has never been changed by God, nor has he repented of his sexual perversion he calls 'orientation'. How tragic is it that unregenerate men like this pass through the ministries of men like Piper and write posts such as these and never get called into question! What's even worse are those who continue to support, defend and follow these ministries, regardless  of the obvious sinfulness within. Big names within the Evangelical community who speak at conferences that  are hosted by and include Piper, men who do NOT call into question nor demand accountability of blog posts like those written by Roen at Desiring God. This is why I refuse to read a book or listen to a sermon by 99.9% of what labels itself as 'Christian' in our day. It is sickening how so many profess Christ, yet overlook the wickedness in their own 'back yard'. May God have mercy on this godless nation and its 'ministries'.


COMMENTS ARE CLOSED

25 comments:

Diane said...

Lyn, I read the post and this is so disappointing! Thank you for drawing attention to this. Though I have books that I truly appreciate by Dr. Piper, I feel that I can no longer link to the Desiring God website.
How sad.

lyn said...

Diane,

It is heartbreaking to see men who at one time, stood so firm. Now there are numerous men who seem to have lost their way; they wink at sin and embrace those who may not be born again. There is so much wrong with Christianity in this country, however, God has always had His remnant. This is why we cling solely to Him, and trust no man.
May our Lord come

Susan said...

I see all of this as a time-piece, time is running out, the axe is laid at the root (Luke 3:9) the fruit is ripening, and much of the fruit that is ripening is rotten fruit...the time for the harvest is near. Those who have an ear to hear will repent of their dark works before their holy God, sorrowing for sin not making excuses.

We can tell what season we are in, Jesus said that we would be able to tell by our surroundings, just as Lot could tell that people were behaving shamefully. I pray for my family and loved ones to have their eyes and ears opened, and for repentant hearts. We cannot change anyone, but Jesus sure can. :)

Darrel said...

Very well stated, Lyn. I'm glad you pegged Roen as unregenerate since there is nothing to indicate otherwise. He exhibits the typical thinking process of the lost, find any excuse for sin including changing the Word of God to suit their fancy. Whereas the truly born again person will beat himself up and bemoan the fact that any sin remains in him-Romans 7. In reality, Roen has condemned himself with his own mouth. Matt. 5:27-30 tells us the end of heart lust: sin. It makes no room of excuses, no room to hold on to sin, with the only remedy being total removal of the offending desire.

It is the heart of stone that wishes to hold on to sin while deceiving itself into thinking that it is also desirous of God (Ezek. 36:26). Roen is calling the Father a liar when he tries to make people believe that God does not want to remove the evil desire of SSA from his heart. "I will deliver you from all your uncleanness." (Ezek 36:29). This occurs at the instant of regeneration and lasts for eternity. The practice, the life long bent to sin is permanently removed. Sin is now hated, not cherished and excused.

You nailed it, Lyn, when you said that Roen knows nothing of the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.

lyn said...

Amen Susan, you have spoken much truth. We can tell our season can't we? We are ever nearing judgment, and it will be swift and severe on the unrepentant.
May we all pray for our loved ones who are in sin, pleading with them to be reconciled.

lyn said...

Good points Darrel, well said. It is so disgusting to see sin being glossed over, covered up, and excused. So many dare take the name of Christ upon their lips even though He does NOT reside in their hearts.How blasphemous is it to profess a Holy God as Lord then blatantly live in abominable sins! Hypocrites!
I cry out for the coming of our Lord, for His righteous rule and reign. It certainly cannot happen soon enough.

lyn said...

JW,

I did not post your comment, for obvious reasons. Insults and name calling are not allowed here. If you disagree, you MUST prove your argument from Scripture. If you wish to submit a comment according to those guidelines, then I will publish it. Otherwise, don't waste your time.

I will say I find it amusing that you accuse me of being unloving, and yet, YOU are the one who insulted me! That's okay, I expect that from a heart that is dead in sin. May God show you mercy.

lyn said...

Cliff,

I did not post your comment because you did not provide biblical proof for your argument. Since you didn't, your comment was nothing more than your biased opinion. Comments like yours are not posted here: unless you want to engage in a biblical response, your accusations will not be taken seriously.
I will state this, you obviously never read the post, for if you had, you would see that nowhere do I 'judge' Roen. I have two posts here I highly recommend for you concerning the misuse of the word 'judge'- both from A.W. Pink - http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2014/01/judging-others.html
http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2014/01/unlawful-judgment.html

It is sinful to wrongly accuse another of judging wrongly, as Pink's teachings point out.

Cliff Hildebrand said...

Lyn,
I posted before i read the links you had posted. Thank you for posting those. I now realize you did not judge Mr. Roen. Congratulations!
You did however state that he is unregenerated and that no one knows except God.

lyn said...

Cliff,
Actually, this is what I said, "It's also worth noting this from a previous post of Mr. Roen's, "I disagree, but I must confess that there is a part of me that finds this script appealing. As long as I can remember, I have experienced exclusive same-sex attraction (SSA). Despite counseling and countless prayers, God has not seen fit to change my orientation." - taken from this post. Obviously, Nick Roen knows nothing of the regenerating power of God, his heart has never been changed by God, nor has he repented of his sexual perversion he calls 'orientation'. How tragic is it that unregenerate men like this pass through the ministries of men like Piper and write posts such as these and never get called into question!"

Yes, we CAN know that, by the 'fruit'. Roen's own admittance of same sex attraction and stating God has not delivered him from that proves he remains in a unregenerate state. I used to live in a homosexual relationship, I do NOT lust for the same sex because of the supernatural work God has done in my own heart. "YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN"...if ONLY sinners understood these words of Christ. Had Roen stated he had repented of his lustful desires, then he would be bearing 'fruit in keeping with repentance'. However, he stated no such thing. To say someone is unregenerate is NOT forbidden, for even Peter called out Simon in Acts chapter 8, " Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray the Lord, if perhaps the thought of thy heart shall be forgiven thee. For I see that thou art in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity."

Simon's 'heart was not right', in other words, he'd not been born again. I encourage you to read Ezekiel 36: 26-27

I also encourage you to feel free to ask me more questions you may have.

Cliff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lyn said...

You need to read a little further, going to chapter 3...

'Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.' 1 John 3:8-10

If you habitually, willfully sin, you prove you are 'of the devil'. To state, as Roen has, that he lusts after the same sex and does so because God has not removed this from him is a lie from the pit of hell. He proves he lusts because God has not regenerated his heart; he does not belong to Christ, but to Satan. The bible is very clear on willful sin, a careful study of chapter 3 tells much, it also shows if you really belong to Christ or not.

I trust this will clear up your confusion.

Cliff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lyn said...

The only way you cannot agree is if you deny the word of God on willful sin. IF you continue on in sin, you prove you know nothing of repentance. If you struggle with sin, say homosexuality, and this goes on day in/day out, month after month and year after year - there's something VERY wrong with your testimony. A heart transformed by God does not wrestle with the same besetting sin for a long period of time. If you are in sin, God will arrest you for it. The true child of God cannot willfully sin against God, it is impossible - which is what 1 John 3:9 teaches 'No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.' Anyone who claims, as Roen does, that they struggle with same sex lust on a continual basis do so because they cleave to that sin. They make excuses for it, justify it, and uphold it. In the end, such holding on to sin will cost you your soul. I HIGHLY recommend two books for you, 1. Thomas Watson's 'the doctrine of repentance', 2. J.C. Ryle's book entitled 'holiness'.

I get the impression you think one can willfully sin and it's okay, this belief is erroneous and deadly.
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2
Heed this warning from the Apostle in Romans 8:13, "for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die".
In Galatians 5:19-21 Paul tells us what living according to the flesh looks like, "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Evidently, you are unaware that there is a battle to fight, a battle against the flesh, the world, and the devil; a battle against sin.

Cliff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lyn said...

Cliff,
Your comments reveal what you adhere to, and what you reject.

You need to look at the word of the Lord, what does it look like to walk in the flesh? For example, Roen's claim that his lusting after the same sex - is that biblical? Galatians 5 says NO - "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality"...What happens to those who live according to the flesh? "You must die" - Romans 8:13 Surely this is clear to you.

Your argument is NOT with me Cliff, it is with the Almighty, Sovereign God who does NOT allow for any sin to be clung to. Do heed these words - "for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved." 2 Peter 2:19

" Flee from sexual immorality. " 1 Corinthians 6:18

If you do not mortify sin, if you make excuses for your 'pet sins', you should tremble. There is not one verse in all of Scripture that states it's okay to lust after the same sex...not one.

Cliff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lyn said...

There is NO biblical mandate to approach one privately when they PUBLICLY post heresy. NO ONE condemned you, you condemmned yourself by trying to justify sin. Then, YOU pass judgment by insinuating I am a legalist, a term you obviously do not understand. If you want to make accusations, do prove yourself from scripture. This is exactly why I did NOT want to approve your comments from the start; it ALWAYS end up with the one who loves sin trying to justify their sins, and calling those who biblically point out the errors names, or making insinuations.

You defend sin, you have no biblical basis for your defense. May God have mercy on you, may He bring you to true repentance. Believe me, you'll know when He does. You exhibit NO brokenness over sin, you seek to justify lusting after the same sex; even after the word of God was given to show you otherwise. You represent a majority of Christianity in America, a brand of shallow religion that enlarges hell. A religion that says it's okay to lust, as long as you still profess Christ. These words should cause you to tremble, " "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me" Isaiah 29:13
Your defense of sin and your words prove your heart has NEVER been changed by God. Your greatest need is mercy and forgiveness.

Would it be safe to say you are a homosexual? I come to this conclusion because you defend same sex lusting.

lyn said...

Cliff,

One last bit of advice concerning any 'public rebuke' - this article should enlighten you on the meaning of Matthew 18 - http://www.standstillawhile.net/2013/02/matthew-18-and-the-public-rebuke-of-sin/

lyn said...

Cliff,

It may also interest you to read 1 Corinthians 5...

"But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES." {NASB}

Still think it's okay to lust after the same sex?

lyn said...

Cliff,

You left this comment, "This is a personal note to you. If you post I will delete it. I am not homosexual nor do I condone the decision to engage in a homosexual lifestyle. I am defending grace. As far as me insulting you publicly, you chose as the moderator to make those comments public. I have deleted the ones I can and would appreciate you deleting defamatory comments you have publicly made about me."

You came to my blog and challenged this post. You defended sin, using grace as an excuse. You were proven wrong from the Bible, and instead of seeing your error, you kept posting comments defending sin and accusing me of being in error. Now, you have chosen to delete your comments, and that's fine. In the future, do not challenge someone if you can't see the challenge through and if you can't support your opinion with Scripture - that doesn't mean pulling verses out of context or practicing eisegesis.

lyn said...

Hello Anonymous

Unfortunately, your comment cannot be allowed because it's based on your opinion. You presented no biblical support, so I cannot allow it.

As for your gross misunderstanding of same sex attraction NOT being sin, you could not be more wrong! It is a perverted lust birthed in the heart of all who lust after the same sex. I have already provided ample biblical support for this, so I will not repeat myself.

If you care to comment again using the Bible to support your words, then I will approve it.

lyn said...

Anonymous,

Your questions and scenarios have already been debated here, I suggest you re-read the post, and go through all the comments. I have already answered them there...and thank you for coming back.

Anonymous said...

Harvey Milk Stamped "Out" Forever !

The Obama Cabal is behind universal GAYety with a "forever" postage stamp glorifying Harvey Milk, a Jewish homosexual predator "attracted to boys aged 15-19," according to WikiAnswers! (Also see Wikipedia.)
Global gaydom was even predicted by Jesus (see "days of Lot" in Luke 17 and compare with Genesis 19).
And the Hebrew prophet Zechariah (14th chapter) says that during the same end-time gay "days" ALL nations will come against Israel and fulfill the "days of Noah" at the same time (see Luke 17 again) - a short time of anti-Jewish genocide found in Zechariah 13:8 when two-thirds of all Jews will die.
In other words, when "gay days" have become universal, all hell will break loose!
Shockingly, the same "days" will trigger the "end of days" - and when they begin, worldwide human government will quickly wind down in just a few short years! For the first time in history there won't be enough time for anyone to even attend college, let alone have a family, save money, enjoy retirement, etc.
One final thought. The more we see gays "coming out," the sooner Jesus will be "coming down"!
For more, Google or Yahoo "God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up," "Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality. When gays have birthdays...," "FOR GAYS ONLY: Jesus Predicted..." and "USA - from Puritans to Impure-itans!"

// above spied on web. Dorothy //

lyn said...

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