Precious Jesus

"Afresh, precious, precious Jesus, I resign this body to You, for doing or suffering, for living or dying. Will You accept it? Will You use me for Your glory more than heretofore, that You may have some little return for all the benefits You have done to me? Oh, do grant this request; my heart longs for it, my spirit pleads for it; and "if You will, You can." You know the hot temptation of which I am the subject. Bring Your glory out of it, and keep me from the evil, and it shall be well." - Ruth Bryan

Saturday, April 21, 2012

What does arsenokoites really mean?

There is a debate between true believers and deceivers that this word does not refer to homosexuals, that Paul was not referencing to homosexual activity when he spoke this word in 1 Corinthians 6:9 . Another claim made for denying that Paul was speaking out against homosexuality is in stating that men were having sex  with temple prostitutes who were both male and female, and that this was limited to shrine temple prostitution based on Jewish philosopher Philo's writings, so it does not apply to homosexuals who are in a loving relationship.  This is a horrific twisting of the original meaning of arsenokoites and complete twisting of the context of the verse. There is no doubt that arsenokoites does indeed refer to men lying with men, regardless of the situation.  Are we to listen to a philosopher or are we to listen to God? Homosexuality was indeed rampant in Paul's day and at the time of Paul writing this epistle, so to assume Paul was clueless to this sin is erroneous.  We will see this in a bit in commentary from Guzik.

First, from Strong's concordance -  'arsenokoites': a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity; a sodomite, pederast.
From Strong's exhaustive concordance, 'homosexual'- From arrhen and koite733 arsenokoítēs (from 730 /árrhēn, "a male" and 2845 /koítē, "a mat, bed") – properly, a man in bed with another man; a homosexual. Homosexual is the English translation that is used to best fit the original Greek. Those who argue 'homosexual' is not in the original language fail to understand the true meaning of arsenokoites, and origin of the word 'homosexual'. 

We move on to Thayer's Greek lexicon for 'arsenokoites' -STRONGS NT 733: ἀρσενοκοίτης ἀρσενοκοίτης, ἀρσενοκοιτου, ὁ (ἄρσην a male; κοίτη a bed), one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite: 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10. (Anthol. 9, 686, 5; ecclesiastical writings.)
Thayer's Greek definitions defines 'arsenokoites' as 'one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual'. Even if you drop the 'modern' terminology - homosexual - you still get the same meaning.

Let's look at commentary concerning this verse, starting with John Calvin, who wouldn't even put a label on this except to call it what God calls it, abominable, "The fourth description of crime is the most abominable of all -- that monstrous pollution which was but too prevalent in Greece." Same sex activity was so very prevalent among the Greeks and so widely accepted, just like we see today.

Albert Barnes commentary states "Abusers of themselves with mankind - ἀρσενοκοῖτοι arsenokoitoi. Paederastae or Sodomites. Those who indulged in a vice that was common among all the pagan; see the notes at Romans 1:27. " Albert did not have a clue as to the word homosexual, but he defined it perfectly.

Clarke's commentary states "The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom - The unrighteous, αδικοι, those who act contrary to right, cannot inherit, for the inheritance is by right. He who is not a child of God has no right to the family inheritance, for that inheritance is for the children. If children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ, Romans 8:17. There are here ten classes of transgressors which the apostle excludes from the kingdom of God; and any man who is guilty of any one of the evils mentioned above is thereby excluded from this kingdom, whether it imply the Church of Christ here below, or the state of glory hereafter. Several of the evils here enumerated will not bear to be particularly explained; they are, however, sufficiently plain of themselves, and show us what abominations were commonly practised among the Corinthians. " He, like Calvin, could not even speak of the evils of men with men, that's how degrading and defiling this perversion is. True believers can hardly stand to utter the word 'homosexual'.

Theologian John Gill cuts right to the chase in his commentary on 'arsenokoites' by bluntly stating "Nor abusers of themselves with mankind; sodomites." That's pretty cut and dry and black and white, but isn't that how it should be concerning this abomination?

Guzik's commentary states "Since this is such a clear condemnation of homosexuality, those who would like to justify the practice say Paul is speaking of homosexual prostitution, not a “loving, caring homosexual relationship.” But taken in context, there is no doubt God is speaking of homosexual acts of all kinds with the words malakoi (homosexuals, which literally refers to male prostitutes) and arsenokoitai (sodomites, a generic term for all homosexual practice).
i. Paul was not writing in or of a “homophobic” culture. Homosexuality was rampant in Paul’s culture; fourteen out of the first fifteen Roman emperors were bisexual or homosexual. At the very time Paul was writing, Nero was emperor. He had taken a boy named Sporus and had him castrated. He then married him (with a full ceremony), brought him to the palace with a great procession, and made the boy his “wife.” Later, Nero lived with another man, and Nero was declared to be the other man’s “wife.”
ii. In this list of sins, homosexuality (not some “special” version of homosexuality) is described. But it is described right along with other sins, many of which those who so strongly denounce homosexuals are themselves guilty of. Can fornicators or adulterers or the covetous or drunkards rightly condemn homosexuals? Of course not.
iii. Christians err when they excuse homosexuality, and deny that it is sin. But they also err just as badly when they single it out as a sin God is uniquely angry with.
" Paul probably had more understanding of the deterioration of a culture spiraling out of control as made evident by rampant sexual immorality than any of us do.


The People's New Testament commentary on 'effeminate' says "This and the next phrase refer to a shameful crime quite prevalent among the heathen, the first submitting themselves to the foul sensuality, and the second actively abusing themselves with men, contrary to nature. Both are Sodomites. None guilty of any one of the list of vices given can be an heir of heaven." Again, we see an outright denial of entering God's kingdom by those who practice abominable things.


Albert Barnes lived from 1798 - 1870, John Gill 1697-1771, John Calvin 1509-1564, David Guzik is among the living, he is the director of Calvary Chapel Bible College, Germany, and the People's New Testament Bible Commentary was written in 1891. My point for bringing this up is this, most of these commentators never heard of the term 'homosexual' and yet, they had an understanding of what it meant, men with men. Where did they attain this knowledge? By going into the Greek and defining arsenokoites,  and by studying other verses throughout the Bible that speak out and/or condemn this sexual sin, verses like Leviticus 18:22, Genesis 19, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, Genesis 18:20, 2 Peter 2:6, Jude 1:7.
We also cannot take Paul's words out of context, he was giving a list of sins that prohibit entrance into God's kingdom if continued on in stating "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. " Nowhere does Paul limit any of these sinful acts to a certain time period or to a specific event.
No matter how you label it, the Bible makes it clear, men with men is an abomination. This isn't to say all sexual sin is not just as grievous, however, the increase in sexual perversion is a sign of the rotting culture, it is also a sign of forthcoming judgment.
There is a wonderful study done by James B. DeYoung that points to the erroneous writings of Boswell and others who have severely twisted the Apostle Paul's meaning  and his writings, I highly recommend this read for all who either believe the lie or need to know the truth so they can rightly debate this. You can read a very detailed study on this subject byJames B. De Young Professor of New Testament Western Conservative Baptist Seminary here.

"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. " Jude 1:7

" Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven, and He overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground." Genesis 19:24-25


God condemns ALL sex outside the covenant of marriage He ordained between a man and a woman, which definitely would include men with men and women with women. No matter how one may try and justify homosexuality by taking verses out of context or twisting their original meaning, in the end, the fact remains...sex is to be between a man and a woman within the covenant of marriage...there are NO exceptions.




There is hope for sinners through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, He made atonement for sin and saves to the uttermost all who believe in Him. To believe in Christ is not a mere verbal profession, it is a forsaking of sin and a submitting to Christ as Lord and Savior. None of this is possible if you are not born again, and being born again is not humanly possible.  That is why 'free will' is an accursed gospel, we cannot regenerate ourselves, nor can we choose to believe because we are dead in sin {Eph. 2:1, 5}. Dead people choose nothing.
Cry out to God for His mercy. Most of us fear God because of wrath which is the consequence of sin, but few understand they have committed horrendous acts  against God by sinning willfully and repeatedly against His word.  May God be merciful and break sinners over their sins, drawing them to Christ and saving them from wrath, freeing them from sin's bondage.


See also my recent post entitled 'men with men' which is related to this post







My source for this study was http:// E-Sword.net and http://biblelexicon.org

38 comments:

Linda said...

No I didn't know what that word meant but I do now.

I'm so shocked and vexed at the lengths and desperate attempts people will go through to try and justify homosexuality as okay in God's eyes if it is a “loving, caring homosexual relationship.” ---There's no such thing in God's order of all he Created. He clearly created male and female and HE performed the first wedding to establish the rule of authority for all to follow.

On top of that they completely miss all the sins they've committed against God such as lying, stealing, using God's name in vain.

Jesus did not do away with the law, he fulfilled the law. In fact Jesus in the New Testament raised the BAR on SIN. Sin is committed in our hearts- if you lust after someone in your heart-you have already committed adultery; if you are angry with someone you have already murdered.

' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean' Matthew 15:18-20.

Do people delude themselves to actually believe that if they were able to remove the stigma of homosexuality from society that they will escape the wrath of God?? The truth is the searing of the conscience and the suppressing of the truth will never erase the disgrace and shame we associate with those sins.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

I cannot believe what I'm witnessing lyn. All those years I struggled with homosexuality I knew the whole time it was sin.

I recon when people remove any kind of sin on a conscious level then their conscience becomes so seared that there's no awareness of God's presence. Sin is manifest when God's holy presence is made known to us.

reminds me of what James Boice said in his book "Whatever happened to the Gospel of Grace?"

"In Scripture, exposure to God always produces feelings of shame, guilt embarrassment, and terror. Since these are painful emotions, we do everything possible to avoid them One evidence of this is the way in contemporary culture that we have eliminated sin as a category for describing human actions. We have changed sin into a crime(because it is now no longer an offense against God, which is what sin is, but rather an offense against the state) and then have changed crime into symptoms. Sin is now something that is someone else’s fault. It is caused by my environment, my parents, or my genes."

That's a very powerful post and one argument that needs to be tackled head on.

God is very patient and God's patience is designed to lead us to repentance by giving us TIME to be redeemed. But, instead of Taking advantage of God's Patience,people caught up in the sin of homosexuality are becoming more bold in their sin.

The supreme folly is that many people actually think they are getting away with breaking God's law.

lyn, I'm so SO glad the Lord saved you sis. You are a beautiful Christian lady and I'm so proud if I can use that word to call you my sister in Christ. Hugs and to God be ALL the glory and honor forever and ever,
Love Linda

lyn said...

Linda,
I was made aware of this twisting of the Greek by a 'gay Christian', you and I both know there is no such thing. However, the homosexual who gets caught up in the false teachings like the one I linked to in the post will read that garbage and run with it {gaychristian101.com}. That is also why I put in bold type and linked to James B. DeYoung's paper that debunks the false teaching of Boswell and others that claim the New Testament does not speak out against homosexuality, particularly 1 Cor. 6:9. I highly recommend you read that, if you haven't already. It is vital we know what we are up against; I had NO clue how to counter-act when I first encountered this.

It should not be surprising the lengths Satan goes to to twist God's truth, sometimes even being so subtle and tricky it is hard to put a finger on.

I also wonder how in the world could anybody believe same sex sex is okay, even if they are convinced God says nothing about it, how do they get around the commands to flee sexual immorality, which is sex with anybody outside the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman?

The gay man whom I've debated is 'married' to his partner, my guess is he thinks its okay because he's married. I am waiting to see how he responds when I bring the biblical covenant of marriage up, how bad will he twist this? May God be merciful...

Linda said...

It's never impossible- with God all things are possible just like God said to Abraham "Is anything too hard for the LORD?"-Gen. 18:14.

Much prayer needs to bathe that man that God would soften his heart and cultivate good soil. I know you have. I've had certain people placed on my heart by the Lord and I thank God for the privilege.

I pray God will grant him the fear of the Lord...

That's the very first thing that began to happen to me a week before I was saved.

All I can say is some people are so adamant that when they do take such great lengths as to argue such points they have no idea what our true condition is and they spend all their lives defending a lost cause not realizing we are already going to hell. Do they really think that trying to cover over homosexuality will cover their leprous heart? Gee that's like trying to put a band-aid on cancer.


"James B. DeYoung's paper that debunks the false teaching of Boswell and others that claim the New Testament does not speak out against homosexuality, particularly 1 Cor. 6:9."

I'll read it sometime probably tomorrow

thanks lyn

lyn said...

you're welcome. DeYoung's article puts things back into a biblical perspective and gives us insight into the garbage Boswell and others are saying, kinda difficult to comprehend in parts, but overall, it is very insightful.

Linda said...

I'm still reading the article on James B. Deyoungs paper. It's longer than I thought~
Get back wit cha later lyn

God bless you sis

lyn said...

It is a bit lengthy. I also ordered a book by Dr. James White entitled 'The Same Sex Controversy' that deals with this very thing. Hope to be sharing from it in the near future!!

Linda said...

I'm about a little over 3/4's through the article.

All I can say is DeYoung and White are brilliant thinkers. They are (recondite)-over my head some and do a very meticulous job in unraveling the disentangled knot these men like Boswell and others try and wind up with all their deceptions and craftiness.

They need (the fear of the LORD.) We can break down any argument and even be cogent in our arguments to the point that people know they are in the wrong and have been shown they are wrong about their twisting of Scripture with trying to justify homosexuality, can lay their heads down on their pillows at nite and admit they are wrong.In the end he's just unwilling because he'd rather keep his sins.

as the saying goes, "A man forced against his will is of the same opinion still."~

I've presented the truth to some people and when I saw they really didn't wanna know, I've had to simply stop and move on.

I'm not too keen in learning all this. It's much too extensive and complicated for my personal taste. I have saved this on my computer if the time arises that I need to share such truths though. for (me) Personally lyn I'm not convinced that I need to bend over backwards in trying to remove the debris from the unbelieving homosexual's path-(apologetics)so clearly and smoothly where they can see when their eyes are still blinded. It is still "the Gospel that is the power of God unto salvation for those that believe" and it still takes an ACT on God's part to remove those blinders to see. No matter all our hard efforts we know Only God can grant the increase~

I know you know this that in the end it's GOD who opens blind men's eyes it's all God's doings. and I'm not trying to be fatalistic here but just that "Salvation is of the LORD". I think much prayer is what we need to soften their hearts.
And discernment

May God richly bless you lyn,
your sister in Christ, Linda

lyn said...

That is so true Linda, even when truth is given, they STILL claim their sexual perversion is not a sin...wow. Even when I lived this lie, I knew it was wrong, God was gracious.

It really is frightening to see such deception and its stronghold, you know judgment is not far off...

Linda said...

"It really is frightening to see such deception and its stronghold, you know judgment is not far off.."

I know we don't go by our feelings but when I read that and the seriousness it gave me chills.

God is giving people over to a reprobate mind and it is very frightening when we still our brains long enough and just think GOD saved ME? WOW if it were NOT for GOD in his great love reaching down and removing those blinders I'd be a goner. How come God chose to save such a wretch like me and not others is a mystery. It's enough to be so thankful to the Lord for whatever he chooses to bring in my life that's for sure...

If anyone had such a sensual mind before I was saved it was ME. I'll never forget in my 20's before I was saved, my brother Steven talking to me about my dad and also about God. He never tried to save me but just said "it takes an act of God. That stuck with me all these years and when God really did reach down to me, I finally knew how true that statement was.

We can only hope and pray and share when God gives us those opportunities. I'm very afraid lyn that less and less people will be saved time is drawing to a close.

there's nothing to inhibit the rapture except for one thing---The last gentile is saved... that's it and bam God the Father will tell his son-go get your bride. We are on the edge of a precipice with not just one thing culminating but many things coming to a head.

Maranatha lyn,
Your sister in Christ, Linda

lyn said...

Judgment, in part, has already arrived in the form of abandonment, more severe judgment is inevitable.
As for people being saved, remember the teachings of the Apostle Paul, 2Ti_4:3 'For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires'- We are there. Let us also remember that all things are possible with God...stay focused on Him sister

Aaron Saltzer said...

If you study the bible, and the gods in it's day, God mentions Molech in Leviticus 18:21. After that, follows the prohibition of Men lying with men, as with women. Also, one of the definitions on Greek lexicons, was a "sodomite" which was a term for a male prostitute in biblical times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution#In_the_Hebrew_Bible, though the short definition is "A male who engages in same-gender sexual activity", which was exactly what a male prostitute did. Male homosexual prostitution was a ritual of worshipping Molech, along with bestiality. I believe when Rick Brentlinger (the author of www.gaychristian101.com), speaks of that on his website. Though, I do not agree with him changing 1 Corinthians 1:7 to say that each man should have "his own suitable partner." This is very confusing though, considering the traditional church teaching of homosexuality being a sin. As proof though, that churches weren't always condemning of it, was that before the 13th or 14th century, same-sex unions were blessed in Catholic churches. Therefore, I believe that when Paul coined the term Arsenokotai from Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, which was in the condemnation of temple prostitution, that's what he was condemning, not homosexuals themselves, which is why there is no mention of women in the definition. The only possible reference to lesbianism, was in Romans 1:26, but it was in reference to idolatry, as mentioned in Romans 1:23, though it is unclear, considering it's the only passage in the bible, that could refer to it. The only unnatural thing I can remember women doing was having sex with angels (as mentioned in Jude 1:6-7), and having sex with an animal (Leviticus 18:23). It never refers to women having sexual relations with women, only recent bibles, like the New Living Translation, say that. I hope everyone will get on the same page someday. This debate's getting old.

lyn said...

What is getting old is the twisting of Scripture to justify this perversion. Your reference to Lev. 18:21 in no way limits homosexuality to prostitution or temple worship- this too is getting old- taking scripture out of context to uphold sin. Worshiping false gods and idolatry lead to a downward spiral of sexual sin, as we see repeated in Romans 1. I would NOT use the website you mentioned as a 'source' of biblical truth, however, IF you are an unrepentant homosexual, I can see why you would. The 'view' you uphold is known as the revisionist's view, I recommend Dr. James White's book, 'same sex controversy', in it, he refutes your argument nicely.
Your line of arguing is that homosexuality is okay as long as it isn't in the form of temple prostitution, so, is it okay to have sex with animals, as long as it isn't in the form of temple prostitution? Is it okay to sacrifice your child outside a form of temple worship, such as abortion? Your line of thinking is not found in the Bible, it is eisegesis. You are making the text say something it does not say. Lev. 18:22 is NOT confined to temple worship, if it were, then all the examples I gave above would mean you could have sex with animals, kill your children for any reason, as long as it were not a form of pagan worship practices. We know this to be true because we find throughout the Bible the condemnation of sexual sin and murder. Your argument is baseless and without proper biblical backing.

lyn said...

I also recommend you read - http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2013/03/men-with-men.html

Aaron Saltzer said...

I am a bit confused. It seems as if some, if not most, lexicons define Arsenokoites as "a sodomite" in one of their definitions. I believe Arsenokoites could have a broader meaning, of course, since there are a couple meanings on Lexicons. In biblical times, it referred to a male prostitute, according to Wikipedia, and Greek Lexicons. Yet, I heard the word "sodomite" isn't even in the original manuscripts of the bible. It is kadesh translated, which was a male prostitute. If this is true, it would make more sense, since Arsenokoites has nothing to do with women. Also, malakos, literally meant "soft, or having the characteristics of a woman" http://biblez.com/searchtopical.php?q=Malakos I'm not trying to twist scripture, or anything like you seem to claim that homosexuals do. But as I've said before, considering the rituals that were used to worship false gods in biblical times, and how prostitution (whether heterosexual or homosexual) was used in worshipping Molech and Ashtoreth, (as mentioned in the bible), I wouldn't be surprised if that was what Paul was condemning, in his use of it. I still won't act upon my homosexual feelings, bc Idk what to believe. It must sounds like I'm trying to justify homosexuality, but I'm not. I'm just looking for answers. I know some people say that we're in the last days, bc the things that are mentioned in Revelations, are happening now. I want to be sure that I'll go to heaven when Judgment Day comes, and not spend an eternity in hell. It almost feels like I'll end up in the latter, bc I just can't seem to brake free from this. I want to be happy, but not in a way that will make God the opposite. I'm not sure what your story is, and how you lived your life as a homosexual, bc all you mention of it, is negative. For me, it was simply trying to find someone to fall in love with, just like anyone else. I'm not so sure that God would approve of that now. I hope you won't jump down my throat about this. I just need support. Not someone to condone my sin, or whatever. But someone I can talk to. Bc I have no one, who is going through the same thing that I am. Your situation seemed like a bad one that you came out of. I only lived as a homosexual off and on for 10 months, I think, and my situation wasn't bad. I just had people keep telling me it was a sin. Or people telling me that your sexuality doesn't matter to God. I just want to be rid of it, but it's hard. I will never lose my faith in God again though. I have before, and felt lost.

lyn said...

Aaron,

It starts with believing the word of God. This is why I included commentary from men who lived before we coined the term 'homosexuality'. This is why I included commentary from David Guzik on the Apostle Paul and what life was like in his day. Read the post again, and ponder on Guzik's words.

The Bible condemns all sexual sin outside the covenant of marriage, regardless of the situation. It is not the situation in which you perform the act, again it is the act of sex itself that is against the word of God. False teachers will confuse you with their jargon, twisting God's word, adding to the text, taking from it, going into the original language and claiming it means this or that, so on and so forth.
If you are being convicted, the listen to what the Lord is saying! We all look for loopholes to justify our sins, but there are none.

Take a look at Matthew 15:19-20,' "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. "These are the things which defile the man'. The word 'fornication' comes from the Greek word porneia, Thayer's Greek Definitions defines it as 'illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

This covers EVERY sexual sin there is outside the covenant of marriage, found in Genesis 2:24. Please, hear what I say, I am a former lesbian saved by God's grace, trusting in Christ's atoning work for the redemption of my soul. God reveals truth to His own. Steer clear of articles, books, websites that twist the word of God and claim it is only sinful in the confines of prostitution and temple worship. This is deception and a lie. Again, please, order Dr. James White's book 'same sex controversy', it will clear up a lot of the teaching you are referring to, known as the revisionist's view. If you cannot afford this book, give me your address, and I will send you one. E-mail me at laurielynbern@hotmail.com

lyn said...

Aaron,

I also want to warn you, false teachers will use diversion to draw you away from God's truth and keep you in your sin. You are confused, you want to have one foot in the world and the other in the word; it does not work that way. God is not foggy in His commands against sexual sin. He has given the guideline for sex, in Genesis 2:24,'For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.' Nowhere in the Bible will you find God condoning sex outside that covenant...nowhere.

lyn said...

Chaplainman


Your drive-by comment was not published, mainly because it was based solely on your opinion and your personal rant. If you truly desire to engage me, you must use the word of God to defend what you state. If you only want to let off steam, to express an opinion based on your own wisdom and understanding, your comment will never see the light of day here.

lyn said...

John,
I chose not to publish your comment and here is why...because you have no biblical basis for your stance. You merely express your opinion; with that said, let me clarify a couple of things. I am NO longer a homosexual, for God has graciously freed me from that bondage. I am not a slave to sin and its lustful desires, praise be to Christ who has freed me through His atoning work on the cross. The grace of God is simply amazing, that He could save a wretched sinner like me is astonishing!
You say you find nothing wrong with homosexuality, but what you don't realize is that it isn't up to you to decide what is right and wrong. Almighty God has already spoken, in His word, concerning sexual behavior. God designed and defined marriage to be between one man and one woman, as Genesis 2:24 clearly states. Any type of sex, regardless of with who are what, outside of marriage is forbidden by God. Any sexual relations within the marriage with anyone other than your spouse is forbidden by God. There is a very stern warning found in Hebrews 13:4, "Let marriage be had in honour among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge." So you see, you do not determine what's acceptable, God has already determined it, for He is the Creator of all mankind and He has every right to lay down moral laws.
You seem to think the Bible is just another book, let me share this with you...

First, from 2 Timothy 3:16, 'All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness'.

Also from 2 Peter 1:20-21, 'But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.'
The Bible is truly the word of the Lord, inspired by His Spirit, empowered by Him, and it changes lives... I am living proof.

Every person ever born since Adam and Eve are born with a sin nature, like that of Adam. We naturally love sin and hate God. We rebel, deny, and reject God and His truth because of our sinfulness. Our hearts are filled with lust, greed, selfishness, deceit, and every other kind of sin. What sinners do not want to admit or think about is what happens to the soul after death. When you breath your last, your soul separates from your earthly body and goes to one of two places. If you have been saved by God's grace, if you have received His mercy, then the atoning work of Christ will given you and your sins will be forgiven. The wrath of God no longer remains on you because the Lord Jesus bore the sins of His people, His resurrection assures us that God the Father was satisfied with His Son's work. That is the only hope for every sinner, believing on what Christ has done and forsaking your sins. The Bible commands everyone to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus; those who reject God and His Son will spend eternity in never-ending torment. Those who insist the Bible isn't true, and that sin isn't costly, or that there is no eternal damnation, these are the ones who will soon awake to the horrors of the very thing they deny.

To be continued...

lyn said...

Like you, I once loved my sins, I was never going to part with any of them. I denied God, His truth, and refused to hear or even think on the matter. Then God, in His mercy, opened my eyes. He broke me over my sins, showing me my own wickedness. He graciously forgave me for all my disgusting immoral acts, Christ suffered for my abominations...even though He NEVER ever once sinned, nor could He! He suffered for me as the Father poured out His wrath on His Son. My sins have been forgiven, and I have been gifted with eternal life! I am free from the horror that sin breeds; the lies, the constant immoral behavior, the insatiable lust, the misery that sin breeds. I have hope, I know when I die I am going to heaven. I know when I die I will spend all of eternity in complete joy, seeing face to face my God who gave Himself for me! I am blessed more than I can say, and I am thankful homosexuality no longer enslaves me.

If you have any questions, you can e-mail me at laurielynbern@hotmail.com. I would be happy to share more of Christ and His precious truth with you.

john said...

please read carefully. i did not use a biblical basis in my comment because there is no proof of anything within the bible being true or actually having happened (and for that same reason will not do so again in this reply-comment).
i was a devout christian for many years and then at some point i just thought about religion for myself. i thought about it freely and i didn’t take anything for granted, i simply thought about it. and i became an atheist quite suddenly. i certainly gave the church a chance and i would simply like you to really think about these questions (give these a chance as i did with your current religion) (for you did not answer them in your response to my last unpublished comment), if you would publish an answer that would be lovely. if not that is fine too. just think about them, please.
why would "god" hide "his” existence?
why are some species of animals (that your god supposedly created) homosexual as their most genetically normal sexual orientation?
if you were born to jewish parents or muslim parents do you really believe you would believe in christianity?
evolution is quite obviously real.
dinosaur fossils predate any human.
dinosaurs going unmentioned in the bible.
the universe is infinite yet your god and the bible only speak of earth.
what separates your religion from all the others, why is your religion truth whilst all others lie?
why would a god require you to believe in him or her without proof? what would that accomplish?
how does believing in something without proof make you a better person?
why do you believe the words of people you have never met?
why would a god care at all whether a man had sex with a woman or instead another man?

also, you have taken some liberty in saying such a thing as, "like you, i once loved my sins, i was never going to part with any of them. i denied god, his truth, and refused to hear or even think on the matter.” if you are saying i have sinned because you believe me to be gay you are incorrect, i am a heterosexual man (though i do not believe it is in the least bit wrong to be gay, i have many good gay and lesbian friends, a few have even tried killing themselves because their families were religious and they believed themselves to be broken). i do not believe i have sinned nor would i love any sin i may or may not have committed or commit. and i have in fact thought deeply on the matter. you seem to hold a sort of resentment towards homosexuals and i think that is terrible. and more so for you than any homosexual. hate and resentment are painful things to bare. and they are most unnecessary.

i do believe the bible teaches some good things. but they have nothing to do with believing in god. you can love and be a good person without religion. for some it is even easier to do so that way.

wishing you clarity health and any form of happiness or love,
john.

ps. hoping you are happy sexually, whichever way that may be.

lyn said...

John,
There's no proof the bible is true? There's no evidence of prophecy fulfilled, of archaeological findings? A search of those things will prove you wrong.
Now, when you go outdoors, what do you see? Trees? Rivers, lakes, mountains, birds, animals, people,stars, the moon, sun, etc.? Where did all this come from? Genesis chapter one reveals how everything came into being, for all was created by a loving and real God. Darwin and his unproven theory of evolution has only darkened further the minds of God-hating sinners.

You say you were a devout Christian, but you words prove you never were. You were never regenerated by the supernatural power of a mighty and merciful God, you only adhered to some outward superficial form of a dead religion you mistakenly thought was real. You never knew what it meant to be broken over sin, to be humbled by God and brought to repentance.
As for animals, they do not have the ability to reason, nor are they created in God's image, like man is. Do remember this, the whole world is under the curse of sin, including the animal kingdom. So it's no surprise they would behave in such a manner.

The bottom line is this, God forbids all sexual immorality outside the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman {Genesis 2:24}. God forbids adultery within the marriage as well. Those who engage in homosexual sex will face eternal wrath. "Let marriage be had in honour among all, and let the bed be undefiled: for fornicators and adulterers God will judge." Hebrews 13:4
Those who even entertain this perversion in their minds will face wrath, for even the thought life is wicked and will bring judgment {Matthew 5:28}.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; God is holy, holy, holy. He will NOT allow anything sinful into heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ made atonement for the ungodly, for those who forsake their sins and trust wholeheartedly in Him. It all starts with John 3:3, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.'

It is convenient for sinners to deny God and His holy word, to reason from their own minds what they think is right. However, what you do not understand is this - your mind is depraved, it is sickened by sin. You cannot know biblical truth, nor can you believe it unless God grants you the new birth. Your greatest need is mercy. You do have an appointed day set by God in which you will die. Your soul will return to one of two places; for those who belong to Christ, they go to be with Him. For those who reject Christ, it is outer darkness to await that horrible final day of judgment. Thankfully, you still have time, you have today. May your understanding be enlightened by the power of God. May your own wickedness be revealed to you.

lyn said...

Anon,

you're right, I will not approve your comment. It's filled with profanity and hate. You provide NO scriptural support for your views; which means you value your opinion over God's truth. The bible condemns homosexuality, and all sex outside the marriage of a man and woman. Those are God's words, not mine. May He grant you repentance, may He rebirth you and save you. There is no such thing as a 'gay Christian'. If you are a homosexual, you are still in your sins and will perish. May God have mercy on your soul.

Ebstein Zimmerman said...

I'm not trying to get into you for this article. First, I'm straight and I find it hard to accept homosexuality but the word 'pederast' is the ancient greek for pedophilia & to suggest Sodomi refers to homosexual activities is incorrect. When reading the passage in the OT, Lot also offers his daughters to the people raiding the house. Why, if it refers to homosexual activity? There is a parallel passage in the bible, Judges 19. The exact same thing occurs except that God doesn't intervene, the concubine is given over, raped and dies in the process. Israel then takes vengeance on Gibeah for the act. Arsenokoites could be referring to gang rape of teenagers, at the time boys, for dominance practices, which makes sense in the context of the passage Paul is referring to and where he was. History records many such pedophilia type practices used to dominate. A very sick culture if you ask me but that is not necessarily referring to homosexuality in the sense. To claim that people are deceivers by trying to understand that passage and those relating to sexual orientation is to claim a position of authority akin to the Pharisee's Jesus condemned (not that I'm trying to get into you because I find homosexuality hard to accept myself) but its very important not to become a stumbling block for those that Jesus permits into His Father's Kingdom. There is no real definition for the word Arsenokoites. 'Arsinus' means 'donkey' so it could be referring to bestiality, another sexually immoral behaviour of the time. Who knows? Only God does and hopefully, through prayer, it will be revealed.

Homosexual orientation would be a result of the Fall and not necessarily what Paul might have been referring to.

Anyway, make of it what you will. This is a very hard topic to deal with but the Bible needs to be referred to correctly when dealing with this issue, not biased 'heated' opinion, forcing an interpretation that is out of line with it, no matter how difficult the situation puts you in.

lyn said...

Thank you for your comment, however, you provide no solid biblical support for your opinion. With that said, it's irrelevant what you, I or anybody else thinks if we cannot back it with Scripture.
Strong's defines arsenkoites as a 'sodomite'; the origin of this word proves it refers to 'men with men' - Origin

Middle English (in the sense ‘sodomy’): via Old French from late Latin Sodomita, from Greek Sodomitēs ‘inhabitant of Sodom.’


The Bible is very clear, men with men is an abomination {Lev. 18:22}. As for 'sexual orientation', don't buy into worldly terminology for sexual sin. There is no such thing as 'sexual orientation'- this may help - http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2012/08/sexual-orientation.html

It seems men of old had no trouble understanding sexual sin, in this case, homosexuality and what the Bible says. It's only in this 'modern age' that confusion has set in, and Christians jump through hoops to try and say 'the bible means this or that', or 'the bible doesn't mean this or that'. Even if you doubt the Apostle Paul, you cannot doubt Leviticus 18:22, Matthew 15:19, or this from Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.' All sex outside the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman {Genesis 2:24} is forbidden by God; even the lustful thought of sex is forbidden {Matthew 5:28}. With that said, homosexuality is forbidden by God, as He states throughout in His holy word.

To try and lessen the severity of this sin is to lessen the severity of the warnings found against it in holy writ. Praise be to God, mercy and grace are available to the chief of sinners. I should know, I lived a lesbian life for over 13 years.....by God's grace, I am free from that bondage and have been cleansed by the blood of Christ.

lyn said...

Ebstein,

I am not going to publish any further comments from you for the simple reason that you pull verses out of context to justify your opinion. For example, you bring to light Leviticus 18:22, then add the 'pork' argument. What you fail to understand are the ceremonial, moral and civil laws that were directed to the Israelites; you also fail to understand that moral laws are still in effect - this may help - http://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/06/19/homosexuality-polyester-and-shellfish/

You then insult the Almighty by stating He made us defective to 'heal us'; my goodness! Where is THAT in the Bible?!?


Your greatest need is to be born again by God the Spirit, to be gifted with eternal life by God the Father, and to believe on the death, burial, and resurrection of God the Son. As God states in His word, repent and believe on the Lord Jesus. May He be gracious to you and save you.

SRF said...

I am thankful the God of the Bible tells me what I need to know about this sin without going into pornographic detail --which is the kind of proof that gays demand while perverting the scriptures into something offensive. The Bible has nothing good to say about it and plenty of bad to say about it:
http://scripturerefinersfire.blogspot.com/2007/12/about-god-hating-shrimp.html

lyn said...

SRF, thank you for your comment. The Bible is very straightforward when it comes to sexual sin, including the abomination of homosexuality. God is a God of mercy, He forgives sin. However, time is running out...

SRF said...

When gays tell us we can't believe what we read in the Bible for ourselves, they're also telling us we can't believe what we read about eternal life or anything else in the Bible. They don't understand the paradox because they can't be honest. If they were honest they'd do something about the sin instead of telling us it isn't sin which is a lie. Debating sin is unnecessary. The Holy Spirit of God is the voice we should listen to.

lyn said...

What homosexuals do not understand is that sin is a bondage, all who sin are enslaved to it. Only the Spirit of God can reveal truth and regenerate the dead heart of sinners. They will continue to defend their sins and cleave to them, and we must continue to proclaim His truth and pray God will save sinners

SRF said...

Thousands of years ago, the Septuagint (originally written in Hebrew) was translated into Greek to reveal the word "arsenokoites" prior to any of the points that are made by the gay-affirming crowd regarding temple prostitutes, etc.:

Lev. 18:22 - meta arsenos ou koimethese koiten gunaikos

Lev. 20:13 - hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gunaikos

As you can see, "arsenokoites" is a Hebrew-to-Greek word-transliteration that best describes those OT verses, and it explains why other usages of the word are "rare" in the Greek language. For example, the word "baptism" was transliterated from the Bible and other usages are rare. That's how transliteration works

The tranliteration of Leviticus is proof-positive that the biblical position on this sin never changed, and Paul applied a literal interpretation to the NT, where Paul followed the Septuagint understanding of this sin as described by the word "arsenokoites", and it predates any of the points made about temple prostitutes. etc. by several thousands of years.

The original meaning has been preserved for us to understand without corruption or confusion where "arsenokoites" was transliterated specifically for the prohibition of homosexual conduct -- period. Thank you Lord. Proof finished.

SRF said...

John Shelby Sponge (Episcopal gay minister) admits homosexuality is condemned in scripture: http://apprising.org/2009/08/10/john-shelby-spong-admits-homosexuality-is-condemned-in-scripture/

srf said...

oops . Gne Robinson is the gay episcopal bishop, not John Spong.

Anonymous said...

The Greeks had their words to refer to homosexuals in his time. Because instead of having used the '' arsenokoites '' not used eg ANDROKOITES to refer specifically to them?

And because the database (Thesaurus Lingua Graecae listed 73) criticizes the arsenokoites word like 73 different meanings in the Greek language?

lyn said...

Anon,
no matter how you look at it, the bible condemns ALL sex outside the covenant of marriage- Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
See Genesis 2:24 for God's definition of marriage. Homosexuality is in fact forbidden by God, many have sought to tweek His word by adding to it or taking from it-both of which the bible forbids (see deuteronomy 4:2). There's no confusion on this matter if one understands the only acceptable sex is one man and one woman within Gods covenant of marriage.
Your comment suggests there's multiple variations on the Greek? If one uses scripture to interpret scripture, then your response doesnt have a leg to stand on.

W T said...

God hates homosexuals...He says they are an abomination...that means they are disgusting to Him.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


ABOMINATION = something disgusting (morally), i.e. an abhorrence; a feeling of repulsion; disgusted loathing.

ABOMINATION = Abhorrence; disgust. A cause of abhorrence or disgust.

ABOMINATION = a person or thing that is disgusting, an action that is vicious, vile, etc., intense loathing

ABHORRENCE - Synonyms: hate, abomination, anathema, antipathy, aversion, detestation, execration
Antonyms: love

ABHORRENCE - hate coupled with disgust.
detestation, execration, loathing, odium, abomination
disgust - strong feelings of dislike
hate, hatred - the emotion of intense dislike; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Definition of REPROBATE
1: to condemn strongly as unworthy, unacceptable, or evil
2: to foreordain to damnation
3: to refuse to accept : reject

Synonyms: decline, disallow, disapprove, negative, nix, refuse, reject, deny, withhold

Antonyms: allow, concede, grant, let, OK (or okay), permit

GOD hates gays...He loves straights..He loves children therefore He hates abortion, he loves righteousness and hates sin.

W T said...

Homosexuals praise their wickedness and the wickedness of others...

Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.

Wrongdoers and the wicked encourage one another....

The wicked that willingly break and cast off the law of God, by so doing, give approbation and encouragement to wickedness. -Bishop. Hall

He that transgresses lies and says, in fact, that it is right to transgress; and so other wicked persons are encouraged.

Those that praise the wicked make it clear that they do themselves forsake the law, and go contrary to it, for that curses and condemns the wicked.
Wicked people will speak well of one another, and so strengthen one another's hands in their wicked ways, hoping thereby to silence the clamours of their own consciences and to serve the interests of the devil's kingdom, which is not done by any thing so effectually as by keeping vice in reputation.

Wicked men excuse one another’s faults, and extol one another’s supposed virtues, in order to keep themselves in countenance, and their own consciences in peace. But upright men, who want no such apologies, will not make them for others. They would candidly allow of what is good, and make the best of what is dubious; but they cannot call scandalous vices by soft names, or give those a good character who are evidently wicked: nay, they deem themselves bound to protest against iniquity, and to use all their power to check its progress.

Wicked men are naturally inclined to take part with those who are, like themselves, against the righteous. Hence there must be a perpetual conflict between the two classes.


Proverbs 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Ignorance of moral truth by the evil is due to their unwillingness to know it.

Evil men understand not judgment, they do not discern between truth and falsehood, right and wrong; they do not understand the law of God as the rule either of their duty or of their doom; and, Therefore it is that they are evil men; their wickedness is the effect of their ignorance and error,

Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Therefore they understand not judgment, because they are evil men; their corruptions blind their eyes, and because they do evil they hate the light. It is just with God also to give them up to strong delusions.

The wicked do not understand, because their minds are naturally blind, and are further blinded by their own prejudices and filthy passions, and by the god of this world (satan), who rules in and over them.

The unbridled passions of the wicked and their wicked actions pervert their judgments, and cloud their understandings, till they “call evil good, and good evil;” so that they are not able to know right from wrong when their own conduct or interest is concerned.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

lyn said...

You paint with too broad a brush friend. God does not love all heterosexuals, nor does He hate all homosexuals. God loves His elect, those He has called out of darkness and into the light. There are multitudes of straight people who will die and go to hell. There are many homosexuals that God has and will save as He sets His affection on them. Please refrain from injecting your biased opinions and claiming you know whom God hates and loves. As a former lesbian saved by His grace, the Lord has proven your theory wrong.

lyn said...

Yes, but do NOT forget the sewer God pulled you from if, in fact, you have been born again by God and elected unto eternal life. Warn sinners to flee the wrath to come and tell them of Christ and His Gospel. May we all have compassion and pity on those who are perishing.