I have been conversing with a person who professes Christ, seems to hold to what I think is an Arminian view but leans toward a universal view at times. My overall opinion is that this person's beliefs are based on an eisegesis approach with a shallow understanding of the Bible as he reads the English translation, forgetting the word of God was not written in English. He takes the words on the page at face value; that in and of itself is not entirely bad, but we simply must go deeper. I am a long way from where I need to be myself.
The topic of discussion is limited atonement; that Christ died for the elect, chosen before the foundation of the world by God and appointed unto eternal life. The doctrine of election fits nicely with limited atonement and both are found in God's word {I will not give all the verses pertaining to this at this time}. The verse he brought up as his proof text against limited atonement was 1 John 2:2, 'and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.'
So what was John saying here, did Christ die for absolutely everyone who ever lived or ever will live? The key to understanding this verse lies in the word 'propitiation'. This comes from the Gr. word 'hilasmos' and means briefly 'the means of appeasing, atonement'. So Christ is the atoning sacrifice for sin, He satisfied God's wrath at sin...but whose sin? Since God's wrath was spent on His Son, this verse must be understood to mean the sins of those who believe. If it were for all, then all would go to heaven because punishment was already spent on Christ, including the sin of unbelief. Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, etc would all enter into His kingdom IF John were speaking of 'the whole world'.
This person accused me of 'telling God what He meant rather than simply believing His word'. This is unfortunate, and an example of Christianity everywhere. There is no desire to go deeper into God's word, no hunger for digging out the 'nuggets' of truth that await those who labor. Shallow Christianity is as widespread as a forest fire. I pray to always be teachable, to always be learning and desiring to go deeper into His word not so I can debate, but to correct error and to know Him more intimately. It is humbling and an honor to have biblical truth revealed to me by the God that sits exalted high above His creation. I am nothing, certainly one of the foolish things He has chosen; I delight in His teachings and pray to always be advancing. May all who belong to Him delight in Him...
7 comments:
Lyn, For a long time now I have held to the fact that Armenianism is more than just a "different belief system" that shows a person "how to be saved". It is in the classic definition of Gal. 1:6-9 "another gospel". It denys the total fallen and hopeless state of unregenerate man. It elevates the "free-will" of man beyond that of a simple idol to the supreme determining factor in salvation. I have yet to find an Armenian that does not believe that "his salvation" can be lost again putting such a one in the impossible position of needing to be "saved" again (or even multiple times). One tried to convince me that he could "opt-out" of salvation if he wanted to. The name "Calvin" is a dirty word to them and they push guilt on those who believe as Calvin did. Their miss use of Scripture follows the same pattern as with all false teachers: out of context, changing of terms and definitions to suit their end, and ignoring those unmistakable "in your face" verses that completely destroy their point of view. Some end up with a "universalist" outlook on salvation and a few are unable to confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh as per I John 4:1-3. So, bottom line, stick to your guns! There are hundreds of verses throughout the Bible that speak directly to the fact of God's supreme, complete, and unchallenged sovereignty in all matters concerning His creation and most especially the salvation He has provided us through Jesus Christ, His Son. Darrel
Darrel,
I know what you mean, this person says the KJV is all he needs, even when I reminded him of the fact that the Bible was not written in English, he still insists I am unbiblical. Folks like this simply are not teachable, they scratch the surface and never dig into the meat.
He brought up John 3:16, when I tried to inform him 'whosoever' is not even in the original manuscripts, he closed his ears. It is amazing how ignorant people can be; I have been thinking just like you, this free will Gospel is indeed an accursed one.
I attribute shallow Christianity to the fact that most preachers do not preach deep truth from the pulpit, nor do they encourage their congregation to dig into God's word.
A good and solid source for truth is found at www.salvationbygrace.org. I tried to get this man to listen to Jim McClarty's teaching on John 3:16 {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRss_v78A}, but it was of no use. It is time to dust off the feet.
Thank you for the encouragement, it is a blessing, especially after going head to head with this man. I cannot fathom anyone not understanding the blessing of tapping into the original language[s] of the Bible.
Blessings to you,
lyn
I agree. I've never set well with the Armenian view.
Good article Lyn stick to the truth you're rightly dividing God's word.
Great points Anonymous
I have to wonder, how many are trusting in their decision or choice as a guarantee for eternal life? How can God save you and not bring you deeper into His word? BTW, this wasn't a new believer I was speaking with. The Bible says to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, would that not include an increase in biblical wisdom? I consider myself a slow learner, God saved me in 2003, it has only been within the past couple of years that I began to understand the sovereignty of God in salvation. I had many stubborn moments, but God is able to get truth into the minds of His people if they remain teachable. I suppose that's the key...
"I have to wonder, how many are trusting in their decision or choice as a guarantee for eternal life?"---That's what really scares me is that simple fact you just stated. I believe many are clinging onto their decisionism or choice that they are saved for dear life and that's what really scares them. If they let go and really read what the Bible actually teaches it would scare the daylights out of them..
It is very clear from MANY passages that God chooses us not the other way around. To say that it was "man's choice, man's decision" flies in stark contradiction to what John 1:12 says "
Jhn 1:12 "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-
Jhn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, (((NOR OF HUMAN DECISION)))or a husband's will, but born of God.
And of course we know what Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--((AND THIS IS NOT FROM YOURSELVES))), it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."
and the airtight verse that excludes man from any decisionism on his part at all- Rom 3:11 there is no one who understands, (((NO ONE WHO SEEKS GOD))))
can't get any clearer then that. Can't pit verses against each other and we can't take one verse build upon that one verse your own doctrine and then make it over-arch the rest of the verses that say otherwise.That's not rightly dividing God's word. God's word is "precept upon precept", Scripture shines light upon nebulous and hard to understand verses or texts.
I've found that if I don't understand a verse or it "seems" to contradict another verse, that's a red flag that's telling me I'm not interpreting it correctly and I need to find out what it truly means "IN HARMONY with the REST of Scripture..
As far as what you said about growing--YES there is evidence of well, I'm not who I'd like to be and I fall, but I'm not who I used to be.
AS far as being hardheaded--I'm probably the world's words Lyn. I'm pretty stubborn in many ways. But GOD in his patience and grace will do what it takes even if it means permitting something unpleasant in your life to pry your hands and brain loose. Jesus is so gentle and humble in heart and we really do find rest for our souls when we learn to yoke with him. Sometimes that yoking with him does not occur until God brings about spiritual poverty in our lives and humbles us..
One verse I found that is interesting is Psalm 69:26 "For they persecute those ((YOU WOUND))and talk about the pain of those ((YOU HURT)).
God will do what it takes to purge that dross to the top and skim it off. He will hurt us, he will wound us for our GOOD so we become so pure and loath that which we hide deep in the darkest crevices of our wicked hearts.
He loves us with His unfailing love
God richly bless you Lyn in the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ and may His peace be your confidence in him that we've made through the shed blood of Jesus. Offer those prayers and petitions to him with thanksgiving and let his peace guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus..
sorry just one of those days where I'm on a roll with His Joy
Excellent response Linda! The verse the free willers love is John 3:16, yet the word 'whosoever' is not found in the original manuscripts. Jim McClarty does a wonderful exegesis on this verse at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRss_v78A
I always appreciate your biblical insight sister, many many blessings to you this day from our glorious Eternal Majesty!!
Amen! Praise the Lord. the Holy Spirit jumps for joy in me.. Thanks Lyn for being a blessing to me just the same sis
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