"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8,9
Saturday, December 17, 2011
Pre-Trib Rapture?
This is the clearest teaching I have heard in support of the pre-trib rapture. Pay CLOSE attention to the fourth and fifth videos, they are the clinchers...
Very good exegesis of the rapture. He presents it very well with many examples given~~
I first heard of this view on JR Church and Gary Steerman's website oh, about a year and a half ago. I presented it to the Forum I go to but some are pretty staunch in their rendering of it meaning what they've been taught many years that the apostasy-falling away from the faith is the true rendering.
I believe it's very clear that it means our departing because of the word THE in front of it.
Anyways you and I are in harmony sister and I cannot WAIT....
To be honest, I wasn't completely 'sold' on the pre-trib rapture until I listened to this. I knew the a-mil view wasn't one I could adhere to, I was just in limbo about the catching away and the end times until now. I leaned toward a pre-mil view but had mixed emotions on the rapture. Now I am glad I listened to this series by Jim McClarty.
It's all good Lyn, I still love you. I've learned over time not to really press the issue but let people have their view.
My mother always believed in pretrib and passed it down to me and my brothers. My brother Steven is a pastor. Once he went off to seminary school, his views changed to post-trib and that's fine if that's what he believes. The ONLY thing that upsets me is when his son, my nephew was talking to me about things and mentioned the rapture, and his dad(my brother)sternly corrected him in front of me. I said nothing but was pretty upset as my mother never forced her beliefs on us in that matter. I'm not sure where he got that rude attitude from? It is a non essential so I just believe it will all pan out in the end...
One saying I found I don't remember who said it is,,, "The rapture -separation of church and state"
I have run into a few who are very adamant concerning their end time position. They throw humility and love out the window for the sake of pride and a self righteous attitude. This should never be, we can differ on secondary issues but we should never let it come down to our view being the only correct view. I do believe Satan is using this to cause division and distraction. While many die each day without Christ, you will find Christians on the internet feverishly defending secondary issues instead of being on their knees crying out for the souls of men...
In regard to "Jehovah's" first comment, he might want to Google "Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice." Walvoord was long viewed at the No. 1 pretrib rapture expert. Ernest
[Hi saved by grace.Saw this item on the web. Lord bless. Rhonda]
PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRETS
How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He's now at the Father's "right hand," Acts 2:34) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, these too-hot-to-handle verses!) Since Jesus can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends, which is also when His foes are finally put down (made His "footstool," Acts 2:35), the rapture therefore can't take place before the end of the trib! (The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters" which covers Acts 2 and 3 much more comprehensively than Walvoord's!) Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of tribulational “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel's posttrib resurrection!) Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so some pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Here are some Google articles on the 182-year-old pretrib rapture view: "Pretrib Rapture Politics," "Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes," “Famous Rapture Watchers,” "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," “X-Raying Margaret,” "Edward Irving is Unnerving," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” "Walvoord Melts Ice," “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Thieves' Marketing," "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" – all by the author of the extremely accurate and highly endorsed book “The Rapture Plot” (see Armageddon Books).
Hello Rhonda, I do not normally debate eschatology, so I will keep my response brief. The catching away happens before the anti-Christ comes into power, watch videos 4 and 5. As for times and seasons, Paul is referring to the 'day of the Lord', which always means judgment and wrath.
Please watch the videos and make your argument from that, not from pasting and copying something you got from another website.
I can google and find many arguments to support the pre-trib rapture as you can to deny it...what has been gained? This is why I do not engage in debate over it, whatever your view is, that is a matter of personal opinion. I have NO DESIRE to try and sway you. If you disagree with my view, then I suggest you simply avoid my postings on this matter...fair enough?
9 comments:
Very good exegesis of the rapture. He presents it very well with many examples given~~
I first heard of this view on JR Church and Gary Steerman's website oh, about a year and a half ago. I presented it to the Forum I go to but some are pretty staunch in their rendering of it meaning what they've been taught many years that the apostasy-falling away from the faith is the true rendering.
I believe it's very clear that it means our departing because of the word THE in front of it.
Anyways you and I are in harmony sister and I cannot WAIT....
To be honest, I wasn't completely 'sold' on the pre-trib rapture until I listened to this. I knew the a-mil view wasn't one I could adhere to, I was just in limbo about the catching away and the end times until now. I leaned toward a pre-mil view but had mixed emotions on the rapture. Now I am glad I listened to this series by Jim McClarty.
It's all good Lyn, I still love you. I've learned over time not to really press the issue but let people have their view.
My mother always believed in pretrib and passed it down to me and my brothers. My brother Steven is a pastor. Once he went off to seminary school, his views changed to post-trib and that's fine if that's what he believes. The ONLY thing that upsets me is when his son, my nephew was talking to me about things and mentioned the rapture, and his dad(my brother)sternly corrected him in front of me. I said nothing but was pretty upset as my mother never forced her beliefs on us in that matter. I'm not sure where he got that rude attitude from? It is a non essential so I just believe it will all pan out in the end...
One saying I found I don't remember who said it is,,, "The rapture -separation of church and state"
Bless you dear sister
I have run into a few who are very adamant concerning their end time position. They throw humility and love out the window for the sake of pride and a self righteous attitude. This should never be, we can differ on secondary issues but we should never let it come down to our view being the only correct view. I do believe Satan is using this to cause division and distraction. While many die each day without Christ, you will find Christians on the internet feverishly defending secondary issues instead of being on their knees crying out for the souls of men...
Exactly Lyn. That's why I love the verse that says
Folly delights a man who lacks judgment, but a man of understanding keeps a straight course.-Proverbs 15:21
&
Pr.17:24 A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth..
Yep you're right it's that ugly pride. When I see it, I'm truly saddened.
Thanks for your outstanding example of keeping the course straight ahead and being aware of the wiles of the Devil...
People are most important to know Jesus Christ
Amen
In regard to "Jehovah's" first comment, he might want to Google "Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice." Walvoord was long viewed at the No. 1 pretrib rapture expert. Ernest
Thank you for the comment Ernest, will check it out.
Lyn
[Hi saved by grace.Saw this item on the web. Lord bless. Rhonda]
PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRETS
How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He's now at the Father's "right hand," Acts 2:34) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, these too-hot-to-handle verses!) Since Jesus can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends, which is also when His foes are finally put down (made His "footstool," Acts 2:35), the rapture therefore can't take place before the end of the trib! (The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters" which covers Acts 2 and 3 much more comprehensively than Walvoord's!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of tribulational “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel's posttrib resurrection!)
Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so some pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!).
Here are some Google articles on the 182-year-old pretrib rapture view: "Pretrib Rapture Politics," "Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes," “Famous Rapture Watchers,” "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," “X-Raying Margaret,” "Edward Irving is Unnerving," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” "Walvoord Melts Ice," “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Thieves' Marketing," "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" – all by the author of the extremely accurate and highly endorsed book “The Rapture Plot” (see Armageddon Books).
Hello Rhonda,
I do not normally debate eschatology, so I will keep my response brief. The catching away happens before the anti-Christ comes into power, watch videos 4 and 5. As for times and seasons, Paul is referring to the 'day of the Lord', which always means judgment and wrath.
Please watch the videos and make your argument from that, not from pasting and copying something you got from another website.
I can google and find many arguments to support the pre-trib rapture as you can to deny it...what has been gained?
This is why I do not engage in debate over it, whatever your view is, that is a matter of personal opinion. I have NO DESIRE to try and sway you. If you disagree with my view, then I suggest you simply avoid my postings on this matter...fair enough?
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