"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8,9
John MacArthur is a great pastor and teacher. I visited his church when I lived in California. It's a huge church and he has many members that are VERY gifted in music, both vocal and instruments of various kinds.
I agree with this message, a woman is not to lead in church, to be a pastor or teacher in a congregation. There are teachers today that grate against my spirit, like Beth Moore and there's another woman, can't think of her name at the moment, that has a huge following.
I got into a huge battle with some who love Beth Moore on this topic. They maintained that she only taught women, but that men chose to want to come to listen, that she wouldn't stop them from doing so but that it wasn't her intention...however, her main focus for her teaching was never Jesus. Go to her website and you see BETH MOORE boldly proclaimed. This caused an uproar by all who "loved" Beth Moore....alot of anger was posited against me for being a "gossip" about her... what? Turns out she also links up with those who are very new ageish in their Bible teachings, and I see those in her teachings as well. Her teachings are more "self-help" than trusting Jesus...she says the words "trust in Jesus" once in a blue moon (more often she does say "trust in God) but the actions that she speaks of are more "trust in yourself" and "you have the power to accomplish whatever you choose". The words "trust in God" are only thrown in to fool people into thinking she is teaching sound Biblical doctrine. But she makes heaps of money selling books and stuff with BETH MOORE all over it...hmmmm...who is elevating who? or what?
Hi Susan, You are right about Beth Moore, she is superficial and should not be teaching. Those who uphold her reject the truh of scripture for their 'idol'. How sad. I am thankful God has raised up men like John MacArthur who does not waver, he speaks God's truth even while so many others twist and deny that very truth. I listened to Beth Moore as a baby Christian, praise God for steering me clear of her feel good mush!
This teaching on woman teaching in the church has been so wrongly taught it has hurt woman or should I say daughters of God from preaching/teaching The Word and, the body of Christ has suffered because of it.
Please read the above site and, I hope it frees all daughters of God to preach/teach as the Head of the church commands! My husband and I are pastors of a small group and we both submit to the Lord first and then to each other. In Christ, Holly
HC, In what way has MacArthur erred in his teaching ? The bible is crystal clear, women are NOT to teach or be in authority over men within the church....1 timothy 2:12 cannot get any clearer. A bishop is to be blameless, the husband of one wife ( 1 tim.3:2). The language in that verse also makes clear this role is to be filled by men. All women who violate God's command not to preach are in sin...period.
and, I agree with what God has said through Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit--1Ti 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Simple and clear, not ambiguous at all as many try and make it out to be.
In CONTEXT--the instructions in 1 Timothy 3 are for ORDER in the CHURCH-the congregation and were given specifically to MEN not women. It is understood that MEN are to be pastors, deacons, elders not women...
God has placed the man over the woman, Christ over man and God is the head of Christ.
In Genesis 3:16, we see the curse of sin--the desire that women have- to rule over their husbands-- or men--Genesis 3:16,,,"[B]Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you."
I see it all the time. I'm a woman and I know how that desire feels. But we women must submit to Christ and to God's word first. It is not our position nor is it our authority because God has made Himself clear. Any woman who goes against clear sound doctrine is ignoring God and living in rebellion against Him
HC, As far as it goes for women being hurt and the body of Christ has suffered because "YOU SAY", God's word is so wrongly being taught, I totally disagree with you or anyone who "appeals to emotions" and refuses to fear the LORD and tremble at His holy word. What kind of "suffering are you referring to anyways? What kind of "hurt"? Every time a Christian suffers or is hurt, is that a terrible thing? What happened to learning the sufferings of Christ?Don't we suffer and hurt many of times because of our pride and selfishness? Is not the Lord so gracious and kind always and we are to learn His sufferings so we can get to know Him and appreciate Him and learn to be more obedient to God?? Some sufferings are for wrongdoings on our part and some sufferings are because we refuse to be shaped by God _____1Pe 2:13 "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority,
Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you FREE".
Well saidLinda; man was created first and then woman. For women to try and lead over the church goes against the order of God's creation. Besides, women have important roles and functions as believers in Christ. Let no woman usurp authority and force herself in a role not designed by God for her; those who insist on being preachers must examine themselves as to whether they are truly in the faith; if so, repent at once of pride, selfishness, disobedience and rebellion. "Why do you call me Lord Lord and do not do what I say?"
Lyn said, "Besides, women have important roles and functions as believers in Christ."
Exacty Lyn and --THAT's-- the real reason why the body of Christ is suffering and why women are hurt. It's because they are not fulfilling their God given role as WOMEN according to what God has ordained. Women will be saved through "child birth"--- a certain circumstance or way of life.
wow I had this video posted on my site and for about two months I went back and forth with a woman who just wouldn't submit herself to solid biblical teaching.
Lyn I also read one of your old post from gcmwatch and I was impressed with your handle of scripture and the clarity in which you communicated it.
Well said Linda, thank you and praise God for your stance for the truth.
Brdavision, I give all praise to God for what he has given me, as well as all He continues to do for all who are in Christ. Perseverence is so vital in these times as well as a rightly dividing His word.
10 comments:
Thanks Lyn,
John MacArthur is a great pastor and teacher. I visited his church when I lived in California. It's a huge church and he has many members that are VERY gifted in music, both vocal and instruments of various kinds.
I agree with this message, a woman is not to lead in church, to be a pastor or teacher in a congregation. There are teachers today that grate against my spirit, like Beth Moore and there's another woman, can't think of her name at the moment, that has a huge following.
I got into a huge battle with some who love Beth Moore on this topic. They maintained that she only taught women, but that men chose to want to come to listen, that she wouldn't stop them from doing so but that it wasn't her intention...however, her main focus for her teaching was never Jesus. Go to her website and you see BETH MOORE boldly proclaimed. This caused an uproar by all who "loved" Beth Moore....alot of anger was posited against me for being a "gossip" about her... what? Turns out she also links up with those who are very new ageish in their Bible teachings, and I see those in her teachings as well. Her teachings are more "self-help" than trusting Jesus...she says the words "trust in Jesus" once in a blue moon (more often she does say "trust in God) but the actions that she speaks of are more "trust in yourself" and "you have the power to accomplish whatever you choose".
The words "trust in God" are only thrown in to fool people into thinking she is teaching sound Biblical doctrine. But she makes heaps of money selling books and stuff with BETH MOORE all over it...hmmmm...who is elevating who? or what?
Great message, Lynn :)
Hi Susan,
You are right about Beth Moore, she is superficial and should not be teaching. Those who uphold her reject the truh of scripture for their 'idol'. How sad.
I am thankful God has raised up men like John MacArthur who does not waver, he speaks God's truth even while so many others twist and deny that very truth.
I listened to Beth Moore as a baby Christian, praise God for steering me clear of her feel good mush!
Thanks for the visit!
http://www.gracecentered.com/women_in_ministry.htm
This teaching on woman teaching in the church has been so wrongly taught it has hurt woman or should I say daughters of God from preaching/teaching The Word and, the body of Christ has suffered because of it.
Please read the above site and, I hope it frees all daughters of God to preach/teach as the Head of the church commands! My husband and I are pastors of a small group and we both submit to the Lord first and then to each other. In Christ, Holly
I also liked Moore as a baby Christian...Joyce Meyer, too. After awhile I just got a "steer clear" feeling, and I did.
HC,
In what way has MacArthur erred in his teaching
? The bible is crystal clear, women are NOT to teach or be in authority over men within the church....1 timothy 2:12 cannot get any clearer.
A bishop is to be blameless, the husband of one wife ( 1 tim.3:2). The language in that verse also makes clear this role is to be filled by men.
All women who violate God's command not to preach are in sin...period.
MacArthur is right on
and, I agree with what God has said through Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit--1Ti 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Simple and clear, not ambiguous at all as many try and make it out to be.
In CONTEXT--the instructions in 1 Timothy 3 are for ORDER in the CHURCH-the congregation and were given specifically to MEN not women. It is understood that MEN are to be pastors, deacons, elders not women...
God has placed the man over the woman, Christ over man and God is the head of Christ.
In Genesis 3:16, we see the curse of sin--the desire that women have- to rule over their husbands-- or men--Genesis 3:16,,,"[B]Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you."
I see it all the time. I'm a woman and I know how that desire feels. But we women must submit to Christ and to God's word first. It is not our position nor is it our authority because God has made Himself clear. Any woman who goes against clear sound doctrine is ignoring God and living in rebellion against Him
HC, As far as it goes for women being hurt and the body of Christ has suffered because "YOU SAY", God's word is so wrongly being taught, I totally disagree with you or anyone who "appeals to emotions" and refuses to fear the LORD and tremble at His holy word.
What kind of "suffering are you referring to anyways? What kind of "hurt"? Every time a Christian suffers or is hurt, is that a terrible thing? What happened to learning the sufferings of Christ?Don't we suffer and hurt many of times because of our pride and selfishness? Is not the Lord so gracious and kind always and we are to learn His sufferings so we can get to know Him and appreciate Him and learn to be more obedient to God?? Some sufferings are for wrongdoings on our part and some sufferings are because we refuse to be shaped by God _____1Pe 2:13 "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority,
Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you FREE".
Well saidLinda; man was created first and then woman. For women to try and lead over the church goes against the order of God's creation. Besides, women have important roles and functions as believers in Christ. Let no woman usurp authority and force herself in a role not designed by God for her; those who insist on being preachers must examine themselves as to whether they are truly in the faith; if so, repent at once of pride, selfishness, disobedience and rebellion.
"Why do you call me Lord Lord and do not do what I say?"
Lyn said, "Besides, women have important roles and functions as believers in Christ."
Exacty Lyn and --THAT's-- the real reason why the body of Christ is suffering and why women are hurt. It's because they are not fulfilling their God given role as WOMEN according to what God has ordained. Women will be saved through "child birth"--- a certain circumstance or way of life.
wow I had this video posted on my site and for about two months I went back and forth with a woman who just wouldn't submit herself to solid biblical teaching.
Lyn I also read one of your old post from gcmwatch and I was impressed with your handle of scripture and the clarity in which you communicated it.
Continue to share God's glorious gospel!
brdavision
Well said Linda, thank you and praise God for your stance for the truth.
Brdavision,
I give all praise to God for what he has given me, as well as all He continues to do for all who are in Christ. Perseverence is so vital in these times as well as a rightly dividing His word.
Bless you both
Lyn
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